By Andrew Schmidt

Featured in Phantom Billstickers Cafe Reader Vol. 13, Autumn 2017

Reissues on American labels? Reunion shows and punk covers bands? Who’d have guessed New Zealand’s punk rock pioneers would have an afterlife, let alone one with an international footprint. San Francisco-based Andrew Boak of Auckland’s early 1980’s No Tag talks Andrew Schmidt through thirty five years in the punk rock underground.

The No Tag EP, one of the hardest rocking records to come out of NZ Punk’s second wind, and a number fifteen chart hit in September 1982 to boot, has been recently reissued in a limited run of five hundred on US label Radio Raheem Records. How did this come about?

Back in 2014, Simon Kay approached us with the idea of re-releasing the EP for Record Store Day 2015, on his label Raw Power NZ Records [who’d reissued Dead Image, The Henchmen, Suburban Reptiles, Shoes This High and Nocturnal Projections], but after doing the maths, realised it would cost too much to do it from New Zealand. So the idea was shelved, but in March of 2015, I got an email from Radio Raheem, who had tracked me down via Simon, inquiring about doing a re-issue. Their offer was fairly standard, but after checking with the guys, we decided to go ahead.

Was there any remixing involved? How does the sound compare to the original?

There was no remixing, but we did have to make a digital master from the original mix on 1/4″ tape. Thankfully it had survived all these years stuck away in Paul’s [No Tag vocalist] garage. The great Angus McNaughton did the re-master to digital in New Zealand, so in essence, unless you’re one of those people who are all finicky about the difference between analog and digital, it should sound the same.

What feedback did you receive about the No Tag EP reissue and from where?

There were a few reviews, all pretty good, but most places just used the blurb from the press release. We did get some feedback from the punters saying thanks for making it available again at a reasonable price. The original was being sold for outrageous prices on Discogs and TradeMe, so it was good to water down

the marketplace demand a bit. We also added the inner sleeve on the re-issue with lyrics, on suggestion from Radio Raheem, but also because we wanted to do something slightly different than the original.

Are No Tag now seen as part of a wider international punk movement and contextualised accordingly?

I tend to think so, but the “New Zealand Music” genre is probably as much of a context as international punk. NZ has put out some very good music over the years, as well as a bunch of crap, but the good stuff is highly sought after, mainly due to its limited availability and territory when released. People still use the “Oi!” moniker, and that is usually combined with “Punk”, but as I said, the New Zealand side of things was a selling point too.

Where are the other band members’ Mark Sullivan (bass), Paul Van Wetering (vocals) and Carl Van Wetering (drums) now and are any still playing?

The other three guys are in Auckland, not playing regularly as far as I know.

No Tag played a reunion show on 5 September 2015 at Auckland’s Kings Arms (Punk It Up) with The Spelling Mistakes and X-Features and you were interviewed and played on national radio (Radio New Zealand). Clearly a lot has changed since the group last played here in 1986. Firstly punk groups are reuniting, something that would have been frowned upon until the 1990s. What is different now?

I think that one of the reasons is that unfortunately the amount of “good” music coming out has decreased over the decades, watered down average shit did just that, watered down what was available. Also, I believe that it’s almost a “Hey folks, this is where it all came from” type thing, similar to Bill Haley and The Comets being the roots of rock’n’roll i.e. “Rock Around The Clock” is still a classic and there’s not much that puts it to shame. I think there’s a very healthy respect as well, that some of the early bands paved the way for what we have today, either musically or politically or artistically or whatever.

…and we’re all not dead yet, knock on wood.

Personally, I’ve always wanted to play as No Tag again for a long while, because we’ve been asked directly if we would reform over the years from certain promoters, and there are lots of supporters of our music who were too young to see us play back then. Generally, every time I’ve been back in New Zealand in the last 15 years or so, most or all of No Tag have got together for a secret jam, so we knew we still had it. It just took a while for the right gig and the right time, the right logistics (with me living in the USA), and for everybody to want to play live, to do it. The re-release of the E.P. probably helped too, and also that I’m the promoter for Punk It Up, so we weren’t gonna get ripped-off or lied to.

You’re playing in New Zealand with bankRobbers, a pick up punk covers group with other early era punks. Who is in the group?

Myself, Jed Town, Shamus O’Brien, Chris King. It all started as an idea I had when Kevin McAvinue was organizing a [Joe] Strummer Day benefit gig at the Kings Arms in 2012. I had wanted to play live because I was back in New Zealand for an unknown time (my father had a stroke), plus I’d also done a Strummerville event in San Francisco with some of the guys from Skinaffect a year or so previous.

Looking back, it was probably a natural reaction to my father nearly dying, musical therapy is a must at times. I was told about Shamus and Chris being from a Clash covers band, so I called them up and got a “yes” from them, but I had a hard time finding a bass player. Just when it looked like it was going to be too much to organize, and I was going to just forget about it, I was moaning on the phone to Jed about not being able to find an available bass player, and he said “I’ll bloody well do it.”

So I borrowed some gear, we all got together and learned ten or so Clash songs…the rest is history…

Basically, every time I’m back in New Zealand now, I have a semi-creative outlet, without having to rely on convincing the No Tag guys to play again (which can be hard, for many different reasons), and because it’s all covers, it’s easy for each member to learn their parts before I get to NZ, so we don’t need ages and ages of rehearsals.

Punk has taken its rightful place in the evolution of electric-era music and been recognised in a way it wasn’t at its inception. What do you think has validated punk rock in the wider mind?

I always remember my wife saying when Nirvana’s Nevermind came out– “Should we be happy, or should we be sad?” I think her point is valid, that it’s great that punk is now able to reach the mainstream ears more easily nowadays, but in doing so, has it taken away its cutting edge/politics/scene etc?… Think supermodels in Ramones T-shirts…

I think also that it’s just that it’s been around long enough for it to become a genre of music, therefore art, and therefore something to analyse/study and talk about more. I mean is “Sheena Is A Punk Rocker” more of a pop song than “Rock Around The Clock”? I would suggest yes…

You could argue for hours about whether Green Day is still punk, I mean they started with the same ideas, members and sound, played at Gilman Street and all the other dives around the world, but they wrote some mainstream palatable songs along the way, then the wheels of the music industry started moving and that’s why they are where they are today.

Rancid are a multi-platinum selling band, but my friend Lars (guitar) is probably one of the most “punk” people I know, even if he does drive a nice car nowadays. I recorded Lars’ side project The Old Firm Casual’s first release (4 song 7″ EP) on my 4-Track cassette recorder in my rehearsal room. He wanted me to do it on my 4-Track so he could “get back to his roots”. I mean, here’s a multi-platinum artist that could afford the best studio in the world, but he wanted to remain true to his punk roots.

It’s a tough topic, because there are pros and cons, and many, many sides to the equation.

You left for England via San Francisco in 1986 and were employed by Rough Trade Distribution and The Cartel in London. Was there any knowledge of New Zealand’s punk and post-punk music at Rough Trade?

Not too much knowledge of the stuff that came out on Propeller or Ripper, but everyone knew and loved Flying Nun by that stage. Anything earlier was pretty much unknown, i.e. people knew the Tall Dwarfs, but had no idea who Toy Love were. It did help that Roger Shepherd had licensing deals with some Euro labels, but it was the distinct sound and great songwriting that stood out too. It’s interesting that NZ music organisations and companies always seem to see the USA as the market they have to crack (and still do), when Europe, Britain especially, has had a love for kiwi music for a while.

You were out and about on the scene. Can you outline the musical changes that happened as they happened and your reaction and involvement with them?

Well, I was still pretty much in the punk musical taste section when I got there, so having access to everything from the Crass/Conflict anarcho stuff through the classics like SLF’s Inflammable Material through to the Cockney Rejects/The Business tunes meant that I was good to go from the start.

The beginning of electronic music coming into the mainstream had started too, and the jangly indie-pop kids were well on their way also. Harry [Ratbag] introduced me to some interesting stuff (and still does—he has one of the best ears in the world for a good song) like Colourbox, Jim Foetus, Front 242 and the like, plus all the indie reggae from the likes of On-U-Sound (Adrian Sherwood) and Ariwa (Mad Professor) labels.

I also gained exposure to a lot of good US punk bands that we didn’t really hear in NZ like Sonic Youth, Big Black, Scratch Acid, and all the Homestead and SST stuff.

There was the Madchester period with Happy Mondays, Inspiral Carpets and so on, and also around that time was the beginning of the rave scene, Acid House etc…smiley face T-shirts everywhere.

Most of the rave music didn’t move me at the time, nor did some of the indie bands, but that said, there was always a “one hit wonder/flavour of the month” song that would be great too.

Rough Trade had a San Francisco based operation, and you crossed the Atlantic to work there. Why did you leave England?

I was given an offer I really couldn’t refuse. Rough Trade got me a 10-year working visa, paid for my guitar/amp/records and other personal effects to be shipped over, and gave me some cash for outfitting my apartment in SF, so it was a bit of a no-brainer. No Tag had parted ways by then (amicably), plus I’d enjoyed San Francisco during the few days we’d stopped over on our way to London in 1986.

What were the San Francisco groups you liked and who else impressed live?

Obviously the Dead Kennedys, but they were not playing at that stage, Primus were starting to get big around then, Faith No More, MDC, Flipper etc. This question is really a bit hard because of the time that has passed where I’ve seen loads of bands come and go, and forgotten their names too. A lot of gigs I was going to back then were friend’s bands, so you tend to have a different impression of them, you don’t think they suck (unless they really, really do), but you also can’t put them on a pedestal because they’re your friends.

What venues and labels were active in the city?

Venues—The Firehouse, Gilman Street, The Bottom of the Hill, Thee Parkside, Chatterbox, with The Warfield and Fillmore for bigger acts, and loads of small 50-100 people dive bars… Anything with a stage and a vocal P.A. would usually do.

Labels—Alternative Tentacles, Fat Wreck Chords, Gearhead, Broken Rekids, Lookout!, Subterranean, plus the bigger punk distributors Mordam and Revolver.

You’re back playing in a punk group (The Blank Spots) and an indie noise band (Skinaffect).

Yeah, I’ve never really stopped playing since I was a teenager, I really mean it when I say I’d be a danger to society if I didn’t have music as an outlet. Which I guess is why I need to be in two bands, I assume I’m more pissed off with how the world is nowadays… lol.

Who is in the groups with you?

Skinaffect is two guitars, bass, drums, I sing and play guitar and do a reasonable amount of the songwriting. The other guys are extremely good musicians who have been playing as long as I have, so they’ve got the chops as well as the good equipment from over the years, plus obviously a huge amount of

the same influences. I enjoy writing with this band, because what the other guys add to my initial ideas are generally what is needed, or something I didn’t think about, but end up making the song ten times better.

Blank Spots are a 3 piece “street punk” band. I play bass in this band, it started with me filling in as a favour, but I enjoyed it so much I stuck around. Luckily, my wife is an excellent bass player, but doesn’t play much now, so I was able to commandeer her bass rig until I managed to get some of my own gear. Blank Spots have just self-released a debut vinyl LP.

The Author: Andrew Schmidt grew up in Paeroa, and is a journalist, rock music historian, and writer. He is a former editor of Social End Product and Mysterex (New Zealand’s first punk rock history magazine), and more of his writing can be found, amongst other places, at audioculture.co.nz.