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All That Blue Can Be: An Interview with Peter Jefferies

Peter Jefferies life in music is the subject of a new biography, The Other Side of Reason, by post-punk historian and writer Andrew Schmidt. It was a book nearly a decade  in the making for the pair who were  both from small towns – Stratford and Paeroa – which gave them some common ground from the outset. Peter Jefferies spoke to Richard Langston.

Richard: Andrew describes you both as creative country boys from small North Island service towns who found a life in music and art that allowed you to step outside of yourselves…

Peter: Yeah, some of Andrew’s observations have been really interesting for me to read. It sounds weird to say it but in a way Andrew knows more about me that I do. It’s so accurately drawn that I’m interested in it, that’s why I’m glad it’s a biography cos the things I read most are biographies about musicians or artists or actors, basicially people who do creative shit. I like them more than autobiographies because there’s an overview. You’ve got to be really lucky for someone to be that interested in you, and also to have a good enough knowledge of what you do. Andrew’s got that. He wrote a big piece about me for AudioCulture. I love that he’s written the broader picture of the times, and all the stuff that is happening around me.

How did the idea of the book come about?

Mike Wolf  from the De Stijl label in the USA had written a blurb to go with  Last Great Challenge when they issued it (in 2013) and he said  in that no one had written a book about me, and Andrew and I were joking about on Facebook or something, and he made some comment and I said well if you want a book about it, why don’t you write one, and he gets back to me about 10 minutes later and says all right I will. From that point on he took it seriously. The point at which I realised he was the right guy to write the book was when he said Closed Circuit was my best album. Only me and my mum thought that and I don’t think anyone else in the entire world thought that. That’s the best one, and if you want my trilogy it’s that and Electricity and Last Great Challenge.

Andrew’s a thorough researcher and he paints the picture of you growing up in Stratford, and there at primary school with you is Ross Hollands, later of Bird Nest Roys, and a fellow traveller that you meet very early on…

Yes, and I’m still friends with Ross now.

I love the fact that here you are in this small town and one of the first records you buy is the Velvet Underground’s White Light White heat for 99 cents at the Farmers Co-op…

Yeah, absolutely brilliant. They had those stand-up racks that revolve and you can stuff five or six records in each rack and they twirl round. We were in the agriculture section heading towards the bedding section and there was one of those racks and I went and had a look and there was this Velvet Underground record with blobby writing and loud colours, bright purple writing and the Coke bottle mouth on it. I thought it was a compilation; it took a while for me to realise what it was.

Then you were brave enough to put it on at parties…

Yeah (laughs). As it says in the book, you might get through side one if you put it on at the right time. I’d hardly ever make my favourite moment, the second guitar break on “I Heard Her Call My Name’ cos it was normally taken off by the first one y’know. People are saying  put on ‘Dreams’ By Fleetwood Mac (laughs).

And your last act at Stratford High School is to play a cover of the Sex Pistols’ ‘God Save The Queen’ in the school band…

I only went back to school for my last year because my art teacher, Roger Taberner, was so cool. That year changed me life; he literally taught me how to think. I learned how to make something from nothing, and once you could do it it didn’t matter whether it was music or art or whatever. He knew I was going to pass, not because I was a good artist, but because my ideas were good and I could explain them, I could say why that bunch of photos I’d taken meant something or why that picture of a tap dripping that I’d just drawn had some relevance. At the end of year assembly the headmaster is saying we like to think ahead at Stratford High and I’m thinking what a load of bollocks, you’ve given me nothing but grief over taking art. When the band got up to play they thought we were going to do something from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat, that sort of dribble. They didn’t even bother to ask what we were going to play (laughs). We played ‘God Save the Queen’ and it caused mayhem. The kids just went off, the kids are up in their seats pumping the air; the parents were up in the aisles outraged, seriously music could still affect people that much in those days. One of the singers got down to his undies. The deputy principal was purple with rage. That’s how I left school, brilliant (laughs).

Sometimes things could turn nasty, and you nearly got your beans when you played  the Lion Tavern in New Plymouth with one of your first bands, Pink Noise…

There were some people the new owner didn’t want in his bar and he wanted us to tell them. Any time there was a difficult job in that band, it was always handed to me. Gordon Rutherford handled the job when the brakes went out on the truck but apart from that, it was always my fucking job. This one guy had just got out of prison and he’d been in as accessory to murder, a serious guy. I had to tell him and his mates the owner wanted them out of the bar, and he said, ‘I’m going to do you’,  and he would’ve. I thought he was going to bottle me, but I was lucky he was someone who listened when I met him later. He gave me a chance to explain what had happened, and I told him the owner said you guys are always causing a problem and it was my job to tell you. If you want to thump me go ahead but I’m just the guy who gets stuck with those sorts of jobs all the time. My brother Graeme got the guitar safely out and he’s across the road!

The book outlines how important certain places become to you and one of the first is Dunedin…I know you went to Auckland to art school but you seem to be in sympatico with Dunedin…

I wouldn’t say I ever felt at home in Auckland, I liked it and it was exciting and I met plenty of good people and I had good friends to flat with, Graeme, Brett Jones, Johnny Pierce and Chris Matthews and Andrew Frengley, and Nocturnal Projections did some great shows in Auckland. People like Paul Rose really helped us. In Dunedin I did feel at home; I was part of a community and had a home base. I never thought I’d leave.

One of the real strengths of the book is that  it details the Xpressway story …how it happened and how it worked…

Xpressway was an amazing thing to do and yet I almost didn’t realise how amazing it was until it was a damn near over. Starting a cassette label when you’ve been used to making records didn’t seem like it was going to be that big a deal when Bruce Russell first suggested it. But the compilation Pile-Up that was a real door-opener. We couldn’t have made that without each other, Bruce was the public face of us and the networker and and he was brilliant at it, he learnt the lingo really quick.

Xpressway connected you to this international network of like-minded labels and muscians…

Incredible wasn’t it. Pile-Up got us to Europe, and the stuff before that was already getting noticed by magazines like Forced Exposure, and Tim Adams from the Ajax label was making the Dead C releases, This Kind of Punishment, Wreck Small Speakers and Alastair Galbraith. It’s really interesting to see where the Dead C arrived at, I knew Bruce before he was in the band and Michael Morley was in Wreck Small Speakers, and Alastair was in The Rip. Bruce didn’t really have that much ability with technical equipment at that point, that’s what he needed me for to master and do all this stuff. It was already lo-fi so you needed every little bit extra you could drag out of this stuff. It was all going onto a cassette which would blunt it down again. I had a nice McLaren EQer. Peter Gutteridge had the master of Pure and he would put it through my stuff and had it come out the other end.

I understand there was a stack of four cassette machines to make copies of the tapes…

During the day Bruce would be at work and I’d run the copiers, every half hour you’d go in and turn them over. 

The Xpressway activity leads to you and Alastair Galbraith and Sandra Bell going to the States for the first time in 1993..you met the writers and label people who’re so enthused by the music….

It was surreal, I’d never been out of the country. This was my introduction to the big wide world, and you can see what a geek I am in the Head in The Clouds documentary that was made about that tour. What a dork! But through all my amazement I still managed to play good shows that make me look like I know what’s going on. We were babes in the woods; there’s America going by at 90 miles an hour and we’re going 30 miles an hour trying to catch up. But we weren’t behind with our sound, they were catching up to us. We were ahead of the game, and I reckon perception of New Zealand music changed. It was the Xpressway and Flying Nun bands who changed it. The only people  I reckon from the mainstream who did it were Neil Finn and Don McGlashan cos he went out and did it.

Music has given you great highs and lows, but you couldn’t have taken any other course in life could you?

I was gonna take art until art school fucked it up for me and put me off completely.  I was a bit like Syd Barrett. Andrew says I keep comparing myself to Syd. Do I? Maybe I do cos I have all these weird similiarities, he was the same, he wanted to be a painter and ended up doing music. I don’t know if I’ve got the right personality to be a musician in some ways. I ended up fronting a band but I was a Karen Carpenter type; I wanted to hide behind the drums. I didn’t want to front a band, but I had to. I would much rather have been a painter, that’s why I’m enjoying not playing live much and don’t have to be a teacher and I don’t have to run to anybody’s schedule. The first time that’s been the case since I was 17. I’m Mister Lazy now.

One thing that surprised me in the book was that when you lived in Canada in 1997 for a brief period you spent six weeks on the streets in Vancouver…

Yeah, that sucked. I didn’t really know my way around downtown Vancouver that well ; I knew my little part of it, and I didn’t really have the means to sort it out and to stay alive. We went to the Air New Zealand office and they got me home; I’ve always been grateful to the national airline for that.

There were some moments that made me laugh; when you and your mother bet on a horse and it financed the release of a record…a particularly New Zealand moment!

Yes, the Catapult/Fate of the Human Carbine single. My mother Gwen was really good at tactical betting. She had this one horse Sharzamarni she’d taken with the entire field.  Sharzamarni won and this other horse, a 96 to 1 outsider, came in second. We got the quinella and it paid $420 and we had $2’s worth, and we had Sharzamarni for a win and it was paying about $8. We might have also had it for a place. We won close to a thousand dollars.

The book also shows how your mother was central to you life…

Absolutely. All the way through. And some people can go ‘oh, you’re a mumma’s boy’, well bugger off! She had an on-going connection with us. We could always lean on her, when our health fucked-out it was back to mum’s, girlfriend went overseas it was back to mum’s, and she sent me $500 to get home when I was on the streets in Vancouver. Not only that she listened to the freakin’ albums and had an opinion about them.

You also took magic mushrooms with her!

Yeah, Gwen had her wild period from her late forties into her early fifties when she started to take some illicit substances. She’d had to dampen it down all the time being married, and then bringing up kids. She’d had to play it straight for so long and she wanted some fun for a change.

I know there was a long period when you gave music away, but you seem to be active again…are you still writing and recording?

My partner Victoria  and I are meant to be finishing an album which has been on the go for three years, and there’s a single that I’m doing with a guy called Joey Worton but he’s hurt his hand and can’t play guitar. He’s from Manchester and mates with Peter Hook and all that. That single’s sort of in limbo. The album will go to Grapefruit  label if they like it, certainly they get first dibs on it cos they did the album Closed Curcuit. We’ve had to write 17 or 18 songs to get 11 that we think are good enough and even then Victoria wants to do things to one of them. We will get it done. To follow up Closed Circuit it better be good or we better not put it out. 

Diary of a Billsticker – Trenton, New Jersey, USA Poster Run

The Ballad of Phantom Billstickers (Part Two)

R.I.P. Beaver.

In Trenton, I was carrying posters by seven poets: Robert Pinsky, Joe Treceno, Marcie Sims, Jay Clarkson, Michele Leggott, Stephen Oliver and Tusiata Avia. This was to be a true urban poster run and I rode my newly purchased second-hand Schwinn pushbike which cost me $40. I was carrying the posters under my wing. I felt like Ignatius J. Reilly and my hunting cap fell down over my eyes several times. I was the thinking man’s oaf.

Trenton is the state capital of New Jersey and has one of the highest crime rates in America. It is also where George Washington gave the British a damn good dusting during the War of Revolution and sent them packing. A nation was then formed that is (I chose the present tense on purpose) dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

In Trenton there are monitoring devices in the streets which detect the sound of gunshots and can also track the direction from which those gunshots came. Say it isn’t so. This is what life has become.

There is a scourge in Trenton and its name is Heroin. The latest street brand of Smack is called “Obama’s Rescue Package” and is sold by those who want to take advantage of the dream of America. They have not joined in the spirit of the revolution. In Mexico, in less than four years, 23,000 have been killed during the “Drug War” and so it goes, (right?).

On to more pleasant subjects:

I am often asked about the old days of billsticking in New Zealand. One doesn’t want to choose favourites, but I have worked with a number of very good poster put-‘er-uppers. The name Harry Sparkle comes to mind first. Harry did the posters for the Hillsborough and Gladstone Taverns in Christchurch during the late 70s to the mid 80s when New Zealand music made all the ground it did. At the time, New Zealand music was like a religious movement and radio stations just did not play it and ‘cover bands’ pulled far more people than original music. I cannot tell you how Spandau Ballet songs made Christchurch swing and what haircuts became during this period of time. This part was appalling.

But, paradoxically, all this made original Kiwi music better as there was a point to be proven. The good bands won out. They are still heard. These bands were very prepared to be honest. At this time, going on the road was dangerous because the public bar clientele may well chase you down the main street for no reason at all and the only food on the menu for touring bands was Hawaiian Ham Steaks. Now that’s what I call dangerous. One took one’s life into one’s own hands to be playing Palmerston North during these years.

To digress, I would also want to give credit to Gerald Dwyer as a paste dude in Wellington, a giant Totara indeed. Then Lee Hubber and Johne Leach also did good work in the capital city. Doug Nuttall was invaluable in Dunedin for getting across the point of New Zealand music and John Greenfield gave his all in the garden city during the 80s and early 90s. Trevor King pasted up the streets of Christchurch in the 1950s and 1960s for Johnny Devlin and Max Merritt and so we must be thankful. You will remember that New Zealand was a closed shop during these years and the Beatles once famously said that they came to New Zealand but it was closed. Many people said this in different ways.

Harry Sparkle? Harry was a punk and during punk we all knew no limits and the walls of repression were being blasted down quicker than you could say “more government please.” Harry’s band was called “The Baby Eaters” and often crashed the stage at the Hillsborough during a touring band’s break. They cavalierly just picked up the headlining band’s instruments without permission and started playing Iggy Pop’s “Cock in my Pocket.” Several punks crowded around the mixing desk as another mate turned the volume Right Up. Pogo-ing was a thing.

Oh what a breath of fresh air.

The touring band’s roadies (often up to nine in total – what did they all do?) would come running and a fist fight would ensue. That’s the price for taking yourself too seriously. The Hillsborough had one of the two best publicans I have ever met, John Harrington (the other was Ray Newman at the Gladstone). And a good laugh was had by all eventually.

I have many Harry Sparkle stories I could relate, not all of them decent.

But I will tell you I saw him paste up the side of a parked bus in Cathedral Square one day for The Terrorways until the driver came running. Yes Harry could make a point.

I also saw Harry flat on his back on another occasion in the Shades Mall with his glue pot upended, posters everywhere and a dozen packets of panadeine cast about in the shape of a cross. For my sins, Harry.

But when a poster needed to go up you called Harry and he went to the maximum for New Zealand music which quite clearly needed to be heard and now has a very real place in the world.

The two other members of The Baby Eaters (Reuben and Johnny) are dead now as far as I know, as are many of the memories of punk. The grandmaster, Malcolm McLaren, died about a month ago.

I think New Zealand Music Month to be a truly great thing (but not universally great), but more than that, I like to see posters coming through for new and vital bands. But I’m going to finish with a joke because none of us should take ourselves too seriously:

This is what English comedian Ken Dodd once said:

“The man who invented cat’s eyes got the idea when he saw a cat facing him in the road. If the cat had been facing the other way, he’d have invented the pencil sharpener.”

The poster run in Trenton was highly enjoyable and I really tried to interact with local people. It worked.

 

Keep the Faith,

 

Jim Wilson

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Diary of a Billsticker – Northern Liberties/Fishtown, Philadelphia, USA

This poster run happened in about mid February and I had the able assistance of Brian Howard who is the editor of the Philadelphia Citypaper.  Brian is a fan of New Zealand music and we had made contact because of this. He had seen ‘The Clean’ play in Philadelphia and was immediately impressed. We all are fans of ‘The Clean’ and will forever be. Brian had also highly rated the Chris Knox ‘Stroke’ album in the newspaper and this gladdened my heart. He cited that album as being one of 2009’s best. We can’t be fairer than that.

The Northern Liberties/Fishtown area of Philadelphia is more than two hundred years old and is nicely worn in (“There’s a crack in everything and that’s how the light gets in” – Leonard Cohen). It’s an area of good music venues and people doing unusual and thought-provoking things. I guess you’d be considered a nutcase if you did some of these things in New Zealand, but many of them relate to art and that’s a valuable exercise in itself. Art (and poetry) is often about challenging ‘norms.’ If no-one pushed the status quo and if society was nicely tied, tidied up, managed and orderly, then I think we’d all die of some kind of heartbreak. Change and movement are what life is about. There is a road ahead. Poetry shows this road clearly. Music does as well.

On this poster run I was carrying posters by several New Zealand poets. I always feel some kind of dignity as I go about stapling and cello taping (Sydney, Australia poster style) these posters to lamp-posts. There’s nothing so human in life as to be putting up poetry posters and (I’ve said this before) people do relate. When you’re putting a Janet Frame Poem poster on a lamp-post in “The City of Brotherly Love” (Philadelphia) then you will connect to people, you will make ‘contact’ beyond superficialities. Janet Frame does that to people and God Bless her. Janet Frame touches people. That is a true blessing.

All of our New Zealand poets touch people. I have some kind of awakening on this run as I watched a bloke go through Michele Leggott’s fine poem “Wonderful to Relate” line by line. This guy was really following what the poem was saying and I just knew it had changed his day. So I now know we can put more ‘content’ into these poetry posters. People will stop and read. There’s something human about all this. Who could not understand a poem poster on a lamp-post?

Aaaah Philadelphia; the city of freedom. This is where Lenny Bruce was arrested in September of 1961. I always think of that each time I visit the city. Lenny was arrested on narcotics charges at the John Bartram Hotel on Broad Street.

Cop to Lenny:

“What’s that white stuff on the dresser?”

“Aspirin.”

“What’s the syringe for?”

“I can’t stand the taste of it.”

Lenny took the rap for us all. Lenny stood up and said things that challenged conventional norms. These conventional norms were giving us all heartbreak and Lenny broke through that. He exposed so much hypocrisy that there should be statues for him everywhere. I think everyone knows how life runs and it’s not how the authorities tell us life runs. Lenny talked about what was really happening and this frightened people – mainly the authorities. Lenny must have gotten hurt as all the criticism and arrests came in. There is no doubt we would not have the society we have now were it not for people like Lenny Bruce. He was a true poet. I take my hat off to him.

In that year (1961) and the following year, Lenny was arrested several more times for saying words that most decent people say to themselves and carefully selected others. What was it Bob Dylan said? “Lenny Bruce is dead, but his spirit lives on and on…” I’ll say.

I went mucking about in old Philadelphia putting up my poetry posters one by one and I just knew I was helping make a difference. That’s got to be the very best feeling in the world. When I finished, I felt really good. I turned around and saw people reading New Zealand poetry. That’s such a good feeling.

 

Keep the Faith,

 

 

Jim Wilson

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